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Whose Claim Do you (or did you) Most Support?
Joffrey Baratheon (King's Landing) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Robb Stark (Winterfell) 17%  17%  [ 1 ]
Stannis Baratheon (Dragonstone) 17%  17%  [ 1 ]
Renly Baratheon (Storm's End) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Balon Greyjoy (Pike) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Daenerys (Homeless in Essos) 67%  67%  [ 4 ]
Mance Rayder ("King Beyond the Wall") 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 6
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 Post subject: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:53 pm GMT 
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Westeros is at war, following the death of Eddard Stark, Hand of the King and Warden of the North. Five different individuals, each vastly differing in personality and strength of claim, wage war to replace the dead Baratheon king.

Twelve-year-old Joffrey Baratheon sits the Iron Throne in King's Landing, with his council of manipulators and yes-men. He is supposedly the son of the late king and his surviving Queen, who rules as Queen Regent and is suspiciously connected with a whole string of murders and cover-ups. It was Joffrey's act of mercilessness, executing Eddard Stark on a whim, that sparks the war.

Ed's son Robb Stark marches south from Winterfell in the North to avenge his father and establish independence for the North and crown himself "The King in the North". Two of the seven great houses stand behind him. He fights for honour and justice... though he has broken the promise he made to wed the daughter of one of his allies.

Stannis Baratheon broods at Dragonstone, grinding his teeth and proclaiming every other claimant a "thief". He is utterly without compromise; as Joffrey is not the king's son but a product of incest between the Queen and her brother, he claims, he is the sole rightful heir. It is not even that Stannis particularly wants the throne: to him, it is just his already, and it is just and dutiful that it belongs to him. He is advised by Melisandre, a Red Priestess whose prophecies have a knack for coming true.

Renly Baratheon is the younger brother of Stannis; he knows he has a weaker legal right, but claims that as Stannis is dour and unliked, only he, Renly, is fit to rule. He charms where Stannis alienates. At the outset of the war, a vast force arrays behind Renly, the lord of the impenetrable Storm's End. His wife is Margaery Tyrell... but his real lover his her brother, Ser Loras.

Balon Greyjoy sits in the grey misery of Pike and thinks of nothing but his previous failures. His old rebellion against the late king lost him two of his three sons, and his third has been a hostage all his life, taken to ensure the Greyjoys would not rebel again. At the outset of the war of the five kings, Balon Greyjoy rises again while the realm is already torn apart. He fights for plunder and personal glory, and commands the second largest navy in the land, though he cannot match the others for manpower.



...So! This thread is set during "A Clash of Kings" and "A Storm of Swords", and is intended for us to discuss (or argue) over who we believe has (or had) the best claim to the throne, who would have made the fittest ruler, and who we personally believe will hold the throne by the end of the series.

Keep spoilers in spoilery tags; I may have read all the books, but many won't have done so. I think anything pertaining to events in "A Clash of Kings" is safe, as that's been covered in the HBO series already.


Feel free to argue the case for others, as well: Daenerys? "Young Griff" (another claimant introduced in "A Dance with Dragons")? Mance Rayder, "The King Beyond The Wall"? Maybe even Viserys?

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The Personification of Spring
 Post subject: Re: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:13 pm GMT 
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I'm afraid I don't understand what going on here. >.>

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 Post subject: Re: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:18 pm GMT 
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It's intended to be a discussion based around the "Song of Ice and Fire" book series (and the series "Game of Thrones" based on those books).

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Amicitia concero omnis
 Post subject: Re: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:00 pm GMT 
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I'm actually working my way through season 2 right now. XD I know some spoilers. . . But honestly, so far (based on the show), I think Dany has the best claim to the throne, and would likely make a kind ruler to boot.

Stanis is too. . .hard. Also, the religion bit is a bit skeevy and I don't trust it.



...And Joff is a little cunt, so....



(Excuse the foul language there. XD)

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Just Damn Cute
 Post subject: Re: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:10 pm GMT 
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I don't know why I'm so amused that you call Eddard 'Ed' instead of 'Ned'.

@Hecate: lol Joff is a little bitch. I enjoy watching gif's of Tyrion slap him over and over. It makes me very happy :twisted: But he obvisouly takes after his mother and not his father. Because Jamie isn't like that at all. He at least has some brains.

Anything else that I might say is likely spoliery so I'll wait until I'm at an actual comp to reply in full.

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Amicitia concero omnis
 Post subject: Re: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:26 pm GMT 
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Artemis Selene wrote:
@Hecate: lol Joff is a little bitch. I enjoy watching gif's of Tyrion slap him over and over. It makes me very happy :twisted: But he obviously takes after his mother and not his father. Because Jamie isn't like that at all. He at least has some brains.

Oh, you mean THIS .gif thatItotallydon'thavesavedonmycomp?

Image

Or this one?

(Eh, not really spoilers, since there's no context other than "Joff is little shit".)


But yea, I'll admit I can at least enjoy watching Jamie's smart-ass mouth whenever he's on screen. Whereas I just want to stab Joff whenever I see him.

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Just Damn Cute
 Post subject: Re: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:08 pm GMT 
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Yeeeesssss

Well it helps measurably that Jamie is handsome and Joffery is not. I can handle the Kingslayer's sass much better, anyways. And frankly, Jamie grows on you, where Joff just doesn't. Ever.

SPOILERS LIKELY TO FOLLOW Actually it's probably best if you haven't read/watched it not to read anything I've written here... >.>
Anyways, if you wanna talk who has a better claim or who would be a better ruler, those can be different things. I've only read the books (Up to A Feast for Crows at least), I'm working on the show right now, so I'm not for sure what's different between them btw.

Dany has a fantastic claim. I mean, daddy dearest was king last, and she is the next in line then. Viserys would have made a very shit king, and he only might have held the people's love because of Dany, because likely, if he'd been handed the throne, he would have gone the Targaryen way with her. He would have only been able to rule with fear, like his father, and never with the love that Dany can command. Dany would be a fantastic Queen as well, imo. She's young, but she does a lot of growing up after Drago's and the babe's death. She's still young, she's still inexperienced, but she's driven and she seems driven for far more the right reasons than some of the others.

I saw a thing the other day that pointed out how Gendry is like a lot of the good qualities of his father and uncles, frankly, Gendry would make a good king too, and has a much better claim than Joff would ever have. He's not a Baratheon by name either, but at least he is by blood. He might be too stubborn yet, but Robert was a right stubborn ass as well and he held the throne for over a decade with peace in the land the whole while. But bastard's can't take the throne. He'd be better, I think, than Edric, who is still rather in the childish views of what it means to be king. Then again, he is still rather a child. Gendry at least has the experience of knowing that it isn't all like the bards sing it to be.

I wouldn't say that Robb has a good claim to the throne of Westeros, but he has every right to the North. And frankly think that it is the best course for the North. There would be no peace with the rest of the seven kingdom's after what Joff did to Ned, family honor demands retribution which the Lannister's will never give, and Robb could never bend the knee to Joffery (or Tommen). He might have with Renly, or even Stannis, but never a Lannister. [SOPLIERS for Storm of Swords]Saddly, not matter how good of a king he would have made, it'll never happen. Stupid Walder Frey and his stupid Red Wedding. Actually stupid Frey's in general, the lot of them are dumber than most of the Lannister's.[/SPOILERS]

[SPOILES for Storm of Swords]And lastly, (for the moment at least), Jon Snow, now rightfully Lord Snow lulz. Honestly, he's one of my favorite characters, so maybe's that's why I feel like putting him up for honorable mention. But c'mon man, they made him Lord Commander of the Night's Watch at what, seventeen? After becoming a turncloak and joining up with Mance. He, imho, would make the best king. He has great leadership, he can command love of those who follow him almost as easily as Dany can. [Theory SPOILER]But also, there is super loads of speculation that Jon is not a Stark bastard by his paternal line. If this is so, which a lot of hints in cannon support surprisingly, he has as good a claim to the throne as Dany does, they being aunt and nephew. And potentially better as it is possible that Rhaegar married Lyanna before he was born, so he wouldn't be a bastard at all. But none of that matters as long as he's in the Night's Watch, and that's for life and all and he's very fond of this whole honor and commitment thing, so yeaaah [/SPOLIER]

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 Post subject: Re: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:21 am GMT 
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Artemis Selene wrote:
Dany has a fantastic claim. I mean, daddy dearest was king last, and she is the next in line then. Viserys would have made a very shit king, and he only might have held the people's love because of Dany, because likely, if he'd been handed the throne, he would have gone the Targaryen way with her. He would have only been able to rule with fear, like his father, and never with the love that Dany can command. Dany would be a fantastic Queen as well, imo. She's young, but she does a lot of growing up after Drago's and the babe's death. She's still young, she's still inexperienced, but she's driven and she seems driven for far more the right reasons than some of the others.


Certainly, Dany can be said to have the strongest legal claim, but it's not definite to me. The Targaryens established their dynasty by conquest, just like the Baratheons did, after all. Jorah has reminded Dany more than once that if she takes the throne, it won't be through legal, peaceful channels, and she shouldn't fool herself otherwise.

Her experience in the Slaver Cities has shaken my faith in her ability to govern, quite frankly. I still see her as bringing down the righteous fury on the connivers & murderers in Westeros, but I'm not convinced she's fit to be queen... at least, not with a very dominant cabal of advisers.

Artemis Selene wrote:
And lastly, (for the moment at least), Jon Snow, now rightfully Lord Snow lulz. Honestly, he's one of my favorite characters, so maybe's that's why I feel like putting him up for honorable mention. But c'mon man, they made him Lord Commander of the Night's Watch at what, seventeen? After becoming a turncloak and joining up with Mance. He, imho, would make the best king. He has great leadership, he can command love of those who follow him almost as easily as Dany can. [Theory SPOILER]But also, there is super loads of speculation that Jon is not a Stark bastard by his paternal line. If this is so, which a lot of hints in cannon support surprisingly, he has as good a claim to the throne as Dany does, they being aunt and nephew. And potentially better as it is possible that Rhaegar married Lyanna before he was born, so he wouldn't be a bastard at all. But none of that matters as long as he's in the Night's Watch, and that's for life and all and he's very fond of this whole honor and commitment thing, so yeaaah [/SPOLIER]


Aye, there's a helluva lot of speculation surrounding Jon Snow's parentage, though I do think those guys over at the series forums seem to take it for granted that it's true.

But, importantly, is there anything that really suggests he wants to take such a role...? I won't say what, exactly, but there's a moment in A Dance With Dragons that suggests he's not into the whole business.

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Just Damn Cute
 Post subject: Re: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:21 pm GMT 
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Silvanus wrote:
Certainly, Dany can be said to have the strongest legal claim, but it's not definite to me. The Targaryens established their dynasty by conquest, just like the Baratheons did, after all. Jorah has reminded Dany more than once that if she takes the throne, it won't be through legal, peaceful channels, and she shouldn't fool herself otherwise.

Her experience in the Slaver Cities has shaken my faith in her ability to govern, quite frankly. I still see her as bringing down the righteous fury on the connivers & murderers in Westeros, but I'm not convinced she's fit to be queen... at least, not with a very dominant cabal of advisers.

I dunno if I would say that Dany has the strongest claim. Her father lost his throne, and as thus, Stannis has about as equal a claim as Dany does. It was her families before, but Robert was the last to sit the Iron Throne, and as he has no legal heir, Stannis is next in line.

Oh I agree that she needs someone else to sit the throne with her, be it a strong king or a good consul. But she can gain the love of the people easily, I'm sure. Even if some, if not a lot, of her actions are childish in their core.

Quote:
Aye, there's a helluva lot of speculation surrounding Jon Snow's parentage, though I do think those guys over at the series forums seem to take it for granted that it's true.

But, importantly, is there anything that really suggests he wants to take such a role...? I won't say what, exactly, but there's a moment in A Dance With Dragons that suggests he's not into the whole business.

True, but it makes a lot of sense. I read this thing that said that Martin let them make the show because the producers/writers accurately guess who his mother was. So yeah.

Oh he most certainly doesn't want the throne. Stannis doesn't really want the throne either, he just knows he's got a rightful claim to it. Jon doesn't want to be Lord Commander, he most certainly doesn't want to be king. Let alone wanting to give up being in the Night's Watch. He will not be a true turncloak ever, his honor could not allow that. He's broken enough of his vows, but fully giving up the black is not something I think he could do.

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The Personification of Spring
 Post subject: Re: "The throne is mine. By rights"
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:01 pm GMT 
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After the fandom meltdown after Red Wedding, figured this would be appropriate.

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